Update: the average IQ is probably closer to 108-109, but it’s hard to tell due to the fact that Jewish identity markers are inconsistent and there are large differences between subtests.
I think it is possible that historical jewish IQ is significantly higher than current when i consider jewish success in 20th century. Central european(germany, austria, hungary) ashkenazis seem particularly smart.
Why would Ashkenazi IQ drop significantly? If anything, Ashkenazi IQ should be higher now than it was then, assuming Intelligent Jews were more likely to survive WW2.
It's much more plausible that old IQ estimates like 115 were just completely off.
Intelligent Jews are much more likely to leave Judaism and marry gentiles, and thus their children are excluded from results. Who is smarter Von Neumann or some random Chassid?
The idea that "mischlings" are the missing link to explain 115 Jewish IQ is just unprovable nonsense. It also begs the question why they should be counted as Jews in the first place? If you assume that the Gentile parent is also of above average intelligence (which you would have to do for your theory to be possible) then the Gentiles have an equal claim to the child's intelligence.
All of this also assumes that many mischlings aren't included in results in the first place, which probably IS the case.
Not what I said at all. I am talking about two well known phenomena: brain drain and dysgenic breeding patterns. We absolutely know that both phenomena have occurred with Jews over the past 80 years. Von Neumann's grandchildren (if he even has them) are not Jewish, same with Heisenberg, same with Oppenheimer. Conversely, Yanky the slightly retarded kid from Budapest who went and became a Chassid now has 150 living descendants.
So far from being nonsense, both these trends are well-evidenced, the only question is whether the effect size is big enough.
We absolutely know not. Famous names left no descendants, sure. But how do you know that Yanki was retarded? He was, probably, well known in the Bney Brak yeshive universe.
We actually don't "absolutely" know those phenomena at all. At least in the sense that they have made any significant difference at all. The dysgenic and low fertility phenomena you're describing about the top 1% of a group is nothing particular to Jews. Hasidics also make up less than 5% of Jews and it would be easy to seperate their results from secular Jews anyway.
Then there is the issue of you not considering "eugenic" effects in the other direction. There is research showing that Jews of higher social status were more likely to survive the holocaust than those of lower status.
All in all, I believe that Jews of today have about the same genetic IQ potential as Jews 100 years ago had. Existing eugenic effects in either direction probably cancel each other out.
See, this is why you SAT score is mediocre. What I said is.
"So far from being nonsense, both these trends are well-evidenced, the only question is whether the effect size is big enough."
It's an empirical question and only empirical research can resolve it. In the meantime, to lots of people who know a lot more about the subject than you it seems intuitively plausible.
Question inspired from reading Raymond Aron’s autobiography. The way he describes it, his parents’ marriage was arranged by their respective families, both belonging to the French Jewish bourgeoisie but from different regions. Could this explain an unusually high level of assortative mating, resulting for instance in one single Hungarian High School having so many Nobel Prizes and scientific geniuses?
Seb stresses that Jews have the lowest levels of assortative mating at the moment, which drags the amount of outliers down. Historically, a lot of assortative mating has happened and was the norm in most of Europe, as were arranged marriages. It could potentially explain why Jews were more dominantly overrepresented in the first half of the 20 century. For "The Martians", they were a product of high talent and excellent education (Germany and Hungary had a lot of STEM elite universities at the time). I don’t think Hungarian Jews were more strongly overrepresented compared to German ones, but more „flashy“ coming from a more „exotic“ country (for American terms).
>My ancient 4chan-tier analysis of the Lynn data where I corrected for convenience sampling turned out to be right on the money.
>My ancient 4chan-tier analysis of the Lynn data where I corrected for convenience sampling turned out to be right on the money.
Do you have it on hand?
noope.
I think it is possible that historical jewish IQ is significantly higher than current when i consider jewish success in 20th century. Central european(germany, austria, hungary) ashkenazis seem particularly smart.
Why would Ashkenazi IQ drop significantly? If anything, Ashkenazi IQ should be higher now than it was then, assuming Intelligent Jews were more likely to survive WW2.
It's much more plausible that old IQ estimates like 115 were just completely off.
Intelligent Jews are much more likely to leave Judaism and marry gentiles, and thus their children are excluded from results. Who is smarter Von Neumann or some random Chassid?
The idea that "mischlings" are the missing link to explain 115 Jewish IQ is just unprovable nonsense. It also begs the question why they should be counted as Jews in the first place? If you assume that the Gentile parent is also of above average intelligence (which you would have to do for your theory to be possible) then the Gentiles have an equal claim to the child's intelligence.
All of this also assumes that many mischlings aren't included in results in the first place, which probably IS the case.
Not what I said at all. I am talking about two well known phenomena: brain drain and dysgenic breeding patterns. We absolutely know that both phenomena have occurred with Jews over the past 80 years. Von Neumann's grandchildren (if he even has them) are not Jewish, same with Heisenberg, same with Oppenheimer. Conversely, Yanky the slightly retarded kid from Budapest who went and became a Chassid now has 150 living descendants.
So far from being nonsense, both these trends are well-evidenced, the only question is whether the effect size is big enough.
We absolutely know not. Famous names left no descendants, sure. But how do you know that Yanki was retarded? He was, probably, well known in the Bney Brak yeshive universe.
We actually don't "absolutely" know those phenomena at all. At least in the sense that they have made any significant difference at all. The dysgenic and low fertility phenomena you're describing about the top 1% of a group is nothing particular to Jews. Hasidics also make up less than 5% of Jews and it would be easy to seperate their results from secular Jews anyway.
Then there is the issue of you not considering "eugenic" effects in the other direction. There is research showing that Jews of higher social status were more likely to survive the holocaust than those of lower status.
All in all, I believe that Jews of today have about the same genetic IQ potential as Jews 100 years ago had. Existing eugenic effects in either direction probably cancel each other out.
See, this is why you SAT score is mediocre. What I said is.
"So far from being nonsense, both these trends are well-evidenced, the only question is whether the effect size is big enough."
It's an empirical question and only empirical research can resolve it. In the meantime, to lots of people who know a lot more about the subject than you it seems intuitively plausible.
Question inspired from reading Raymond Aron’s autobiography. The way he describes it, his parents’ marriage was arranged by their respective families, both belonging to the French Jewish bourgeoisie but from different regions. Could this explain an unusually high level of assortative mating, resulting for instance in one single Hungarian High School having so many Nobel Prizes and scientific geniuses?
Seb stresses that Jews have the lowest levels of assortative mating at the moment, which drags the amount of outliers down. Historically, a lot of assortative mating has happened and was the norm in most of Europe, as were arranged marriages. It could potentially explain why Jews were more dominantly overrepresented in the first half of the 20 century. For "The Martians", they were a product of high talent and excellent education (Germany and Hungary had a lot of STEM elite universities at the time). I don’t think Hungarian Jews were more strongly overrepresented compared to German ones, but more „flashy“ coming from a more „exotic“ country (for American terms).